As I said before, Pajper made a mistake there, and I think we all agree. But do you know what the next mistake is going to be and will it be ours? not looking for solutions. I hope that when this issue is resolved, we can continue discussing without censorship like sivilized people about what could be done here to improve and get out of this constant drama.

With this I do not mean that this discussion should stop. On the contrary, I think that Pajper should clarify with something really solid what she wanted to do, and from that start building the change and improving.

I fully understand your perspective.

I don't like moderating. I'm a programmer and I'm not built to look at reports, think about bans, and so on. Using common sense and not feelings in this matter is neither easy for me nor is it something I enjoy doing.
But I had to deal with it while administering Polish Elten Community from the creation of this portal in 2014 to 2019.
I believe that handing over this responsibility was an excellent decision because it was given to a person who was very good at it, certainly better than me. But during the 5 years of my administration, although it may not have been perfect, the forum did not fall to pieces. So I think I also have the right to speak on community management issues, and the Polish community has over 300 users.

Sometimes there are different perspectives on the problem, even often. And a certain decision is made with which some people do not agree. And, absolutely, they have the right to say so. But certainly not in the form that took place in this thread.

As for the removal of those posts, there are also snippets from the second wave, post 76.

I agree that later posts were substantive. But they lost their meaning without reference to the previous drama. Should I remove them?
You say no and you have the right. I intervened under the influence of the report and, I think, rightly so. At one point, we had a huge problem in the Polish community with offtopics, spam and so on. What helped was the policy introduced, not by me, of cutting off such discussions by the roots. A few months passed and the procedure ended. So I used a method that I know has been effective in our case.

Will it work here? I repeated dozens of times, I don't know. Maybe I'm completely wrong. Soon, I hope, this community will get another administrator and rules that will be most satisfactory to the majority.
But the way some users attacked me after one decision doesn't bode well. And, yes, I have read your posts. In general, I think that you write very sensibly all the time and even if you disagree, you write it calmly. And personally, as me, I think you should become an administrator.
However, my rule was to remove spam and insults until the conversation participants repeated them calmly. I never forbade the presentation of views, on the contrary, I encouraged the discussion to be moved to a separate thread and announced that I would follow it.
So I don't understand either Argumentum at Hitlerum or censorship accusations.

@theblack

It depends on the poll results on the beginning of February.
I'm going to, depending on the responses and my opinion resulting from the discussion, delete everything, archive some threads, only some posts or do nothing with previous entries, enter or not my vision of forums structure and then pass moderation over to Sir-Charlie or through election.
So, many questions here.

It seems like a good decision to me. I hope everything turns out well, and I think that, as you yourself say, everything should be taken calmly. We all hope that everything improves. Although I agree with you on many things and not on others, we both agree that this has gotten out of control countless times.

the forum didn't fall to peaces? Wasn't 2019 the time when whole forum disapeared for a while due to massive problems in the pollish community? Or the time when you started asking for donations due to the fact that due to problems in the pollish community, quote, hate against the program raised?

Problems with the forum are one thing and much broader social issues are another.
Besides, I don't know what the issue of donations has to do with anything.
At some moment, we just passed this magic point where Elten started absorbing costs beyond my capabilities. It has nothing to do with hate or not.

I only said what it was based on when it was started.

Absolutely. I understand where you are coming from, but deleting something that could be even a proof for choosing... I don't know.
Clever people say what you've already written down on the internet, stays there for ever. We shouldn't give the freedom for anyone to post anything they want and then delete all the garbage, because it clears their history.


-- (pajper):
The study results so far contradict this.
If you think it's bad, and most people do, then the way to fix it is certainly not to ignore the problems. In the poll itself, there are requests to delete insulting posts and even threads, and these are popular requests.
Where to draw the line is a broad topic and worth discussing, but the fact is that such removal is expected. And so far it has only resulted in mud being thrown at me.

BTW. I got many reports about posts in this thread suggested to be removed. I didn't do it because I can imagine the next drama. But there are users that also think that behaviours here are not proper.
The only thing it means is that many users have many perspectives.
And you are trying hard to push one, the most yours.
It's sad because I'm not pushing my point anywhere, I'm just arguing. Numerous times I informed that I'm going to find you a new administrator ASAP.

--

Idk is a very great username, such as n/a...

I am revering to the resoults

Everyone that is replying to this thread is mostly the same group of people and deleted posts or not, it just seems like the pile up on the dev continues.

I'm curious how and why my options in the poll were deleted. As many of you know, my native language is hungarian, but even if I've chosen that option, 0% of the people set it that way. Interesting, isn't it?
Edit: as I see only the language disappeared, other options didn't.

Hm, maybe if there's less than 1% yoi will see 0 procent...
I guess this the right answear, when you sum everything, you will see 91% or something like that.

I have answered this poll and hope that my result will affect something a little.
But the main problem as I think is not with the english community itself but with Elten in general.
Why we have there only polish, english and some other two or three very active communities?
Because all others found another better place. Discord which is fully accessible for blind people, Telegram which has its own disadvantages but the russian blind community still has several huge groups with from 200 to 1000 members in them.
Whatsapp which is a piece of shit in my opinion but we have groups there too.
Websites and forums targeted to games for blind, general questions and very specialized topics.
Even on reddit there is a blind community which is small but active.

Honestly I and my friends never opened Elten for file managing, playing sapper or using Youtube. Instead we use more robust and up to date solutions.

So yep, i guess my message will be deleted as dozens of other ones on this topic but at least someone will read it and maybe think about a better place too.

I have nothing against Elten and its developer but I open Elten one or two days every week just to try to hopelessly find another interesting topic.
Life is not only in Elten. Life is broader and wider and I suggest everyone do not spend so lots of time to decide the fate of such a small and unimportant thing.
I bet you never spend so many hours debating about the government election in your country or about the way of NVDA or JAWS development.
So why you spend your time here and for that?

I guess often it's this long nostalgia, just the way one got to know people, or just how the interface looks, the sounds, etc etc. At least for me. Some random mainstream chat client is of course good in the way that everyone can use it but one like that would never make me have great memmories of it once, they can permenintly update them and make accessibility worse or add things noone cares, and I don't feel like going on a website with adds to browse youtube vids, nor do I feel like pasting an audio 5 times or more behind each other in goldwave to represent a playlist in a decent player, nor is explorer a good and fast file manager since all it does is lagging a lot, I could go on and on here. Of course it'll be easy for people who never got into this program so much. I've been here since 2021 but actively since 2022, and nearly every day. That does something. I'm not sure where I've mensioned this and if this post still exists, but in 2022 this forum was absolutely great. Nice conversations, too in the voice forum, it was easy to get intigrated and open up with even more private/emotional content which would now be impossible in 2024. Look into some older threads like intigration or some might be in others, but then yall will get it. Especially, the feeling lonely topic. A lot of those posts were very interesting to read, many were even helpful, now almost unimaginable too. So I think that, once this comunity would be fixed this could become a place where far more users would feel like enjoying, opening up, and inviting others to so we all can have a great time. If you think this program isn't good and want it to shut down, if you think about this like that for every program blind dudes make we'll soon have nothing. Of course it's a shame that sighted people won't be able to truely access this, it'd feel very interesting for me anyway, but I'm not a fan of discord and all those, especially the mobile app was really cool once, now it's nearly garbage. But I remember how many people got sad about klangos shut down. And then one day we'll have another client trying to concept clone elten. Nah, it's not how this needs to go. Well, that's my opinion at least, in the end what do I have to say.

@cyrmax agree. I still like to use the interface and the file manager, but I get your point. Another huge problem of elten that even after now almost 5 years of this beeing announced, we still don't have a working mobile app. there is an elten mobile on github but it has not been updated in years, and the elten mobile that the sponsors get can not even browse the forum. I don't know about other countries, but in germany less and less blind people use the computer for things like social media. How are you soposed to get these to come to elten if they need to use a, in their case, only for school device to use it?

Instead of youtube with ads, use Brave browser. Instead of explorer, use total commander.
I don't know if you have an iPhone or android but on android the discord app is fine.

-- (marchoffmann):
I guess often it's this long nostalgia, just the way one got to know people, or just how the interface looks, the sounds, etc etc. At least for me. Some random mainstream chat client is of course good in the way that everyone can use it but one like that would never make me have great memmories of it once, they can permenintly update them and make accessibility worse or add things noone cares, and I don't feel like going on a website with adds to browse youtube vids, nor do I feel like pasting an audio 5 times or more behind each other in goldwave to represent a playlist in a decent player, nor is explorer a good and fast file manager since all it does is lagging a lot, I could go on and on here. Of course it'll be easy for people who never got into this program so much. I've been here since 2021 but actively since 2022, and nearly every day. That does something. I'm not sure where I've mensioned this and if this post still exists, but in 2022 this forum was absolutely great. Nice conversations, too in the voice forum, it was easy to get intigrated and open up with even more private/emotional content which would now be impossible in 2024. Look into some older threads like intigration or some might be in others, but then yall will get it. Especially, the feeling lonely topic. A lot of those posts were very interesting to read, many were even helpful, now almost unimaginable too. So I think that, once this comunity would be fixed this could become a place where far more users would feel like enjoying, opening up, and inviting others to so we all can have a great time. If you think this program isn't good and want it to shut down, if you think about this like that for every program blind dudes make we'll soon have nothing. Of course it's a shame that sighted people won't be able to truely access this, it'd feel very interesting for me anyway, but I'm not a fan of discord and all those, especially the mobile app was really cool once, now it's nearly garbage. But I remember how many people got sad about klangos shut down. And then one day we'll have another client trying to concept clone elten. Nah, it's not how this needs to go. Well, that's my opinion at least, in the end what do I have to say.

--

on iphone they completely messed up the friends section, also I don't want to use a browser just for youtube, because I can life with adds, but the page is in general big to navigate, and idk if this total commander can preview audios by just simply pressing space?

Nah, iPhone ofc. :D Discord used to be good, as I said. Now...
Well android is always late with updates so who knows, it might be bad in the next months. And even in general, navigating through the youtube site is so much slower than using something like elten, for what I use anyway. I have my iPhone if I really need to comment on vids. But also, there is just no file manager like elten, for example where you can press space to play files without opening a player window, simply converting files, etc etc so it does have useful things you just don't get out of other programs as much. And why having 5 apps if you can have 1 app for all. Of course there are improvements needed in some areas but I just like this concept and it works for the very most.
-- (ArcticMoon):
Instead of youtube with ads, use Brave browser. Instead of explorer, use total commander.
I don't know if you have an iPhone or android but on android the discord app is fine.

-- (marchoffmann):
I guess often it's this long nostalgia, just the way one got to know people, or just how the interface looks, the sounds, etc etc. At least for me. Some random mainstream chat client is of course good in the way that everyone can use it but one like that would never make me have great memmories of it once, they can permenintly update them and make accessibility worse or add things noone cares, and I don't feel like going on a website with adds to browse youtube vids, nor do I feel like pasting an audio 5 times or more behind each other in goldwave to represent a playlist in a decent player, nor is explorer a good and fast file manager since all it does is lagging a lot, I could go on and on here. Of course it'll be easy for people who never got into this program so much. I've been here since 2021 but actively since 2022, and nearly every day. That does something. I'm not sure where I've mensioned this and if this post still exists, but in 2022 this forum was absolutely great. Nice conversations, too in the voice forum, it was easy to get intigrated and open up with even more private/emotional content which would now be impossible in 2024. Look into some older threads like intigration or some might be in others, but then yall will get it. Especially, the feeling lonely topic. A lot of those posts were very interesting to read, many were even helpful, now almost unimaginable too. So I think that, once this comunity would be fixed this could become a place where far more users would feel like enjoying, opening up, and inviting others to so we all can have a great time. If you think this program isn't good and want it to shut down, if you think about this like that for every program blind dudes make we'll soon have nothing. Of course it's a shame that sighted people won't be able to truely access this, it'd feel very interesting for me anyway, but I'm not a fan of discord and all those, especially the mobile app was really cool once, now it's nearly garbage. But I remember how many people got sad about klangos shut down. And then one day we'll have another client trying to concept clone elten. Nah, it's not how this needs to go. Well, that's my opinion at least, in the end what do I have to say.

--

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