Then why the poll, even? You said this in the other forum topic so I'll summarize: Promote charlie and have done.

I have emphasized many times that this is my personal opinion based on the impression I have made. I don't know him, I don't know any of you. I will follow the poll and discussions and listen to the advice contained therein, or at least I would like to find out what the majority thinks.

in my 6 years of forum usage i have never seen that. Topics get closed but deletion is extremely rare, for good reasons.
-- (pajper):
Used to be quite popular on portals like 4programmers. Also Polish Elten Community adopted this strategy, and to be clear, I am not a moderator there and I have no intention of being one.

--

Depends on forum, I know places where it's popular and those where not.
-- (karmien):
in my 6 years of forum usage i have never seen that. Topics get closed but deletion is extremely rare, for good reasons.
-- (pajper):
Used to be quite popular on portals like 4programmers. Also Polish Elten Community adopted this strategy, and to be clear, I am not a moderator there and I have no intention of being one.

--

--

you only have to work with his stratigy until some one else takes over so just work with it I don't agree with the stratigy but just let him do his thing so he can leave. Why don't we use this time to get said person choosen and find out how we are going to choose that in the first place insted of being caught up about what everyone else is saying.

@45, what the hell are you even talking about

@45, yes, we should sit back and condone sensorship because apparently having a respectful discussion canbe be deemed as containing hateful rederick. Like it or not this is exactly what is happening. Active sensorship

Deleting all oftopic from first insulting post, it's good idea, at least on polish forum it works, When we hadn't cleaned discussions, later we had milion posts about nothing interesting, people were talking about everything, but not about the main topic.
Of course not everyone is happy with these changes, but probably more people are satisfied.
If we want to solve problem with an admin on english community, I think we can stop discuss about Pajper and his deleting posts, he said what he will do, just accpet it for a few weeks, until a new admin will be chosen.

It is influencing the election of a new admin and a poll if someone just deletes posts wich are important to build opinions, I won't discuss with you any longer, and hope that charlie or any relliable person just gets the admin and we can set a danm point behind this, but can we stop comparing polish and english group. Your community is not ours, and it obvioursly isn't working. If you guys over there like influencing free speach and conversations about important stuff, thats absolutely fine, then go back to there and continue.

On this, at least, I am in full agreement with you. It is influencing the election of a new admin and a poll if someone just deletes posts wich are important to build opinions, I won't discuss with you any longer, and hope that charlie or any relliable person just gets the admin and we can set a danm point behind this, but can we stop comparing polish and english group. Your community is not ours, and it obvioursly isn't working. If you guys over there like influencing free speach and conversations about important stuff, thats absolutely fine, then go back to there and continue.
2 users like this post

22.01.2024 10:07
This post has been edited
49/49

It seems to me that this is where we kill the forum in the name of freedom of speech. After all, not deleting posts was exactly what the previous administration did (or rather, didn't do).
The poll at this point was filled out by 73 people, with maybe 15 of them actively contributing to the forum.
Dramas, insults and so on are also the most frequently indicated problems in the text boxes, as well as the immaturity of some users.

Well, we have few people expressing themselves in this thread, and it's hard for me to speculate, but I have a feeling that the very principle of "let's not delete anything, let's let users do dramas, offtops and private insults" was the one that failed.

And as for comparing the English and Polish groups, I don't see why we should avoid that. If the Polish Community has more than a hundred active users at this point, and we are not talking about any culture-related patterns, it might be worth considering what worked there and what is missing here. I would make a similar comment about any community where there are active discussions.

You're calling us immature because we object to our posts being deleted? Also deleting posts is a practice I've seen exactly nowhere. And it's not a practice anyone here likes. IDK man, you're sort of ruining this whole situation by your actions alone. Everyone involved. Literally everyone but you. Has said that you're to blame here, except for someone from the Polish forum. Which no one else here is a part of. Stop passing blame. You screwed up. You know you're not good at administrating so you chose to... administrate willy nilly? Nah man. This isn't our fault. I'm all for holding a community accountable but this is your mess.

What's the main issue of Elten English Community?
Insults: 12%
Offtopics: 5%
Immaturity of some users: 52%
Lack of interesting discussions or low level of those ongoing: 9%
I see no problem: 9%
Other: 10%

I think you've shown more immaturity in a focused space in this topic than MOST of the rest of the forum. Please keep in mind I said most, I am well aware of the random fights and arguments that start elsewhere. Notice, once again, I said elsewhere because no fights have happened in this entire topic... until you decided to start deleting stuff. Look maybe I'm beating a dead horse here, but I wish you'd stop trying to call everyone else here stupid, childish, and problematic, when this is your fault we're at this point in this already contentious situation.

It may be worth reading everything the other side says first. I won't get involved in eristics.
In fact, it's easiest for me to close this thread and leave this group to its own devices. I want to help, but I won't do it at the expense of being thrown mud at.

I didn't call directly anyone childish here, I'm just repeating what is written, for example, in the poll. My only mention of childishness was in relation to the discussion in this thread and noone was pointed. Although, yes, I find some of the attitudes in this thread childish.
Did I write that though? NO. Mainly because you achieve nothing by insulting others, a lesson I also advise other members of the discussion to learn before posting further replies.

He won't understand it, give it up guys.

First conclusions of the poll.
We got 81 votes, which is more than I expected, thank you.

Opinions are strongly mixed.
Basically, we have a consensus from most people that the situation in the English community forums is worse than it was a few years ago. Overall 58% think it is worse, 10% think it is better, 7% see no difference and 23% have no opinion.
There is also a consensus that the problem is the immaturity of some users, 51%. In second place is insults, 14%.

When it comes to the preferred course of action, we have a wide variation and so:
43% are only in favour of removing offensive posts. The problem is that, as shown in this thread, this definition is quite broad and it is worth doing a poll of opinions on what constitutes an offensive post.
30% think nothing should change.
A total of 25% think that past discussions should be deleted or archived.

As far as the administration is concerned, 34% of people are in favour of holding an election now, 30% in favour of handing over the function to Sir-Charlie, 17% in favour of a delayed election, and 17% in favour of abstaining from an election for the time being as well.

As far as the text boxes are concerned, I will elaborate more on this later, as you raised a mass of different, important issues.
The most important findings, however, highlight the need for moderation and administration of the forums. You repeatedly note that there is a lot of drama and conflict on the forums, a lot of insults. Some suggest very extreme moves, like deleting entire threads. There is a recurring theme of website translation, which is undoubtedly important. There is a lot of talk about the promotion of Elten. There are mentions of program lagging, which is an important topic to discuss, as I do not have this problem. There is a reported demand for specific, fixed rules and sticking to them, which I absolutely support. Several people have referred to the drama in this thread, citing it as an example of the problem. There is a general repeated belief in the idea, for which I thank you very much, and a belief that new faces will change a lot here.

These are the initial conclusions, I look forward to continuing as the survey is very popular.

Perhaps the most difficult issue is the multitude of expectations.
I hope that the community in general has more flexible views than some of the people commenting on this thread, but at this point I fear that every decision made will lead to some form of contention, as there is none that an actual majority likes.
For example, the majority is in favour of deleting insulting entries. But, apart from the lack of definition of such posts, almost the same number of people are in favour of preserving current posts and, by contrast, building this community from scratch.

I feel sorry for the developer. It's a difficult situation to be in, you can't please everyone unfortunately.

In this case you're using a poll to gather opinions. And the very nature of a poll shows you that you won't please everyone. And you're not trying to please everyone, just the majority. What I've seen in this past day and a half or so is that 1, people don't like their posts being deleted without explanation or reason. Which is understandable. 2, people are tired of this entire situation. 3, you should just promote someone, end this, and move on, because you clearly hold some level of contempt for this place. Which is your right but you've said, numerous times in this conversation, you're not equipped nor inclined to moderate this place. So don't. Hold your election or just promote Sir Charlie. The difference in viewpoints is only 4 percent so you lean one way or the other and you piss off the same amount of people. I think that ending this will take a big step in solving some of these issues.
So just promote someone, end it, and the expectations no longer fall to you.