Let's shape future of this group

Oh my god when someone close this topic?

how does this deskution go to fucking talking about tech and servers. Like the fuck

You just don't realise the scale we're talking about.
Even now we have 70 users online. It can be up to 110-120 users. It means that every user, even idle, waits for notifications, events etc.
Every of those users is a separate worker thread. And it's not issue of optimization, it's typical setting for server applications. Many tasks are cached with Redis, but even 5 or 10 active users can generate content that must be synced for all other users: messages, IDs, followed threads, calls etc.

You just present that you don't have experience in server applications as big as Elten.

Who are you responding too?
-- (pajper):
You just present that you don't have experience in server applications as big as Elten.

--

Sorry, I was addressing mainly Cyrmax.

No, I don't mean 100% uptime, sorry, it was badly worded. What I mean is that you can trust that you can turbo the thing all day and actually use it to its full extent and it will stay up well enough that you can guarantee refunds for any malfunction. I don't think it's necessary to have a worker thread on the server for every user, since the client can just call an API once in a while, but I have no idea, maybe those threads also handle transmission of audio data in calls or something. I'll have to take a look at the source to really understand it

No, I didn't mean real worker thread per user as user but for every session. And it's like FPMs work.

oh ok that makes more sense

Developing and managing a huge project is not only about programming skills, Linux or windows knowledge or overal competence in computer stuff.
It is also about people, communication and proper delegation of tasks.
As i allready told in my russian blog, I had a project, it was an ultimate and awesome ebook reading app for iOS designed for blind and visually impaired users.
I have hired a designer and a couple of partly sighted people to develop a high contrast and comfortable UI. I payed them some money for their work.
I spent two years for this project and it even has been released as open beta. I cannot write shocking numbers because only 250 regular users were there according to appstore connect console, but those users loved the application, they used it and were happy.
If they found a bug, they brought me a report and I was trying to fix it as soon as possible.
IDK about english, but in russian we have such a word and i can say that i was burning with this project, i loved it, i spent most part of my free time for it.
But at some point i realized that only one middle grade Swift developer is not enough for this thing.
I wrote a motivating post to all serious programmer communities trying to find more people.
And it failed.
Unfortunately I have lost my job and was in hard search for a new company, and so I couldn't continue this project myself.
Also because of the sanctions against Russia i couldn't continue paying for my apple developer membership and lost any ability to publish apps in the appstore or even testflight.

And now, looking back at this long sad story, i understand that for a big project to stay alive not only programming skills are required but at least a minimal ability to communicate and hire (for money or for an idea) a team of people who could help you.
And with those people you should communicate, inform them about all stuff and delegate tasks between them.
If someone is good at moderation, he should be an admin and communicate with other moderators and admins. If other guy is so good at system administration, let him be a server admin, controlling system stability and responsiveness. If third guy is able to write some code, maybe not as cool and fast as you, then give him some routine tasks which take time but are not so difficult for him.
Start to plan your time, write and control everything with some task tracker or even time tracker.
Use some recommendations and practices to optimize your time and balance your load.
As i said earlier, optimization is the main thing after coding skills.

A person who is always in a hury, who always runs to somewhere and cannot even stop will burn out himself after 5, 10 or 15 years.
If you manage your time and load properly, you should have some time to stop and rest, not only in bed while sleeping.


-- (ArcticMoon):
Pajper has other different projects and that's cool, I'm not denying anything. But to be honest he has much more than he can manage alone. He's always in a rush, ignores even community administrators and moderators, and after that, when sees a community collapsing, he already can't do anything because he manages too many projects all at once that's already not possible and realistic alone.
That's why we are getting a lot of big, clever words, large numbers, so a naive user will be surprised without thinking. But all in all 500 blogs aren't that much, 10000 private messages in text are nothing compared to anything more serious, should I continue? These are just large numbers to let the average user wonder and take back his words. On the other side, a programmer knows this all and laughs.
I had a similar groupmate at university. When I didn't know how to set up windows properly, he kept telling me it's difficult as hell because all the drivers and programs and everything, don't even try because it's difficult as hell. Once I was obligated to set up windows on a laptop so I had to try. I set up a virtual machine, on that system I knew I can't do anything wrong. I went through the setup and I was all set. After that I went up to my roommate, who asked me to set up her computer and I did everything without mistakes, and don't forget it's very very very difficult, if we believe the words of my previous groupmate.
After that I didn't believe anything but if I wanted to try something, I read about it myself and decided if it's easy or difficult for me to try.


--

The biggest like for your signature, guy!
Yes, i have spent some time, like a minute or less, but at least it made me smiling :D


-- (karmien):
Where is a public elten api, and are you sure you are not confusing it with the server repo which has not been updated since 3 years and is probably not latest anymore? I may be wrong here though, @pajper could you pls correct me if i am.

--

@810 I think you're looking for passionate. It means you really love something, so you'd say you're passionate about the project.

Who said that i5 is an enterprise grade server processor?
Me not.
Because i know that it is not true. Yes, my home server has usual client-side i5 cpu because it was cheaper and this is enough for my nextcloud, home assistant with around 20 or so templates and scripts, for Kodi instance, backups from other servers and a little more stuff.
Yes i can power it down and do not turn it on for several hours if i want. because this is a really private thing.
But real servers which i rent do have server processors and they do their job well enough to be up for an year without a single reboot.

-- (SightlessWolf):
ArcticMoon wrote:
"That's why we are getting a lot of big, clever words, large numbers, so a naive user will be surprised without thinking. But all in all 500 blogs aren't that much, 10000 private messages in text are nothing compared to anything more serious, should I continue? These are just large numbers to let the average user wonder and take back his words."
This is the most terrific display of blatant ignorance I have ever seen. Sorry, buddy. Setting up windows doesn't make you qualified to throw such slander about something which has not been proven yet. Did you know about the voice calls, and the constant downloads when people browse media forums? Bandwidth is fucking expensive. And don't tell me about lowering the quality of the encoder. It does not help enough. It's still expensive. And people will complain when it's lowered. I'll remind you: you were banned from the forum for continuing this bullshit arguments, now stop it, I want you to be banned from here too.
As for you: no, you should not put an i5 in a *real* enterprise-grade server, on which I am sure elten runs. It's not a real server processor, you can't have 24/7 uptime, it does not support more than 2 channel RAM. Go and educate yourself. Fuck!

--

I do not know how your elten server part is designed but if users just stand idle waiting for notifications here what is called long polling can be used.
They just wait and server does not respond to them until a new content arrives for them.
I hope you know this but just to clarify i had to tell this obvious stuff.
And yes, we can have lots of worker threads. But if they do nothing most part of time it means nothing to the cpu usage. Should mean nothing if the architecture is correct.
Also I do not believe that this two second lag when i open this huge topic is reasonable. Take data from db, transform it and send to the user... this is not a task for two seconds.
And do not tell me that it is my internet. At 800 mbps every site and program except telegram and elten work rapidly fast.
About telegram, i have an idea, it could be a problem of Unigram, because official telegram on my android, ios and windows work very fast and only unigram thinks about every voice message for 3 seconds or more.


-- (pajper):
You just don't realise the scale we're talking about.
Even now we have 70 users online. It can be up to 110-120 users. It means that every user, even idle, waits for notifications, events etc.
Every of those users is a separate worker thread. And it's not issue of optimization, it's typical setting for server applications. Many tasks are cached with Redis, but even 5 or 10 active users can generate content that must be synced for all other users: messages, IDs, followed threads, calls etc.

--

Maybe yes. Thank you, i didn't know this word.


-- (Sir-Charlie):
@810 I think you're looking for passionate. It means you really love something, so you'd say you're passionate about the project.

--

Well, sure, but this goes back to the part when he says he's optimizing code that was sometimes written 10 years ago. I'm not the coder, but I'll let him explain.
Arctic moon is ignorant to the highest degree .. at least you are making some sense. But even so, you can't compare that to elten. And we also have to understand the amount of time that is put in to program the software. Could be doing anything else in that time. Is it not worth paying for?

Well said. Way better than I could have ever written down. thank you.

-- (cyrmax):
Developing and managing a huge project is not only about programming skills, Linux or windows knowledge or overal competence in computer stuff.
It is also about people, communication and proper delegation of tasks.
As i allready told in my russian blog, I had a project, it was an ultimate and awesome ebook reading app for iOS designed for blind and visually impaired users.
I have hired a designer and a couple of partly sighted people to develop a high contrast and comfortable UI. I payed them some money for their work.
I spent two years for this project and it even has been released as open beta. I cannot write shocking numbers because only 250 regular users were there according to appstore connect console, but those users loved the application, they used it and were happy.
If they found a bug, they brought me a report and I was trying to fix it as soon as possible.
IDK about english, but in russian we have such a word and i can say that i was burning with this project, i loved it, i spent most part of my free time for it.
But at some point i realized that only one middle grade Swift developer is not enough for this thing.
I wrote a motivating post to all serious programmer communities trying to find more people.
And it failed.
Unfortunately I have lost my job and was in hard search for a new company, and so I couldn't continue this project myself.
Also because of the sanctions against Russia i couldn't continue paying for my apple developer membership and lost any ability to publish apps in the appstore or even testflight.

And now, looking back at this long sad story, i understand that for a big project to stay alive not only programming skills are required but at least a minimal ability to communicate and hire (for money or for an idea) a team of people who could help you.
And with those people you should communicate, inform them about all stuff and delegate tasks between them.
If someone is good at moderation, he should be an admin and communicate with other moderators and admins. If other guy is so good at system administration, let him be a server admin, controlling system stability and responsiveness. If third guy is able to write some code, maybe not as cool and fast as you, then give him some routine tasks which take time but are not so difficult for him.
Start to plan your time, write and control everything with some task tracker or even time tracker.
Use some recommendations and practices to optimize your time and balance your load.
As i said earlier, optimization is the main thing after coding skills.

A person who is always in a hury, who always runs to somewhere and cannot even stop will burn out himself after 5, 10 or 15 years.
If you manage your time and load properly, you should have some time to stop and rest, not only in bed while sleeping.


-- (ArcticMoon):
Pajper has other different projects and that's cool, I'm not denying anything. But to be honest he has much more than he can manage alone. He's always in a rush, ignores even community administrators and moderators, and after that, when sees a community collapsing, he already can't do anything because he manages too many projects all at once that's already not possible and realistic alone.
That's why we are getting a lot of big, clever words, large numbers, so a naive user will be surprised without thinking. But all in all 500 blogs aren't that much, 10000 private messages in text are nothing compared to anything more serious, should I continue? These are just large numbers to let the average user wonder and take back his words. On the other side, a programmer knows this all and laughs.
I had a similar groupmate at university. When I didn't know how to set up windows properly, he kept telling me it's difficult as hell because all the drivers and programs and everything, don't even try because it's difficult as hell. Once I was obligated to set up windows on a laptop so I had to try. I set up a virtual machine, on that system I knew I can't do anything wrong. I went through the setup and I was all set. After that I went up to my roommate, who asked me to set up her computer and I did everything without mistakes, and don't forget it's very very very difficult, if we believe the words of my previous groupmate.
After that I didn't believe anything but if I wanted to try something, I read about it myself and decided if it's easy or difficult for me to try.


--

--

Well, and that's pajper doing, doesn't he? He even shouldn't care about your community as a dev, what he does, cause he cares about u, users. He doesn't care for PC, cause he doesn't have to, as he has, well, lets call them people to do it, though I really apreciate their work as volunteers. Cyrmax, your project was maintained for two years. TWO YEARS. Elten is being maintained for around 10. What's a guarantee you will even care for it for more than afew months? And how should we rely on your declarations, if you have done nothing for the project so far? Pajper made several appeals for programmers here to help in any way, even in building public API in the language he didn't desire it to be. There were two tries and each dev withdrew after fucking few months.
And, what's make me laugh the most is your runaway from the topic. Pajper proved he has much bigger experience in programming than you have, so you immediately changed it to another. Come on, be serious, please.
-- (cyrmax):
Developing and managing a huge project is not only about programming skills, Linux or windows knowledge or overal competence in computer stuff.
It is also about people, communication and proper delegation of tasks.
As i allready told in my russian blog, I had a project, it was an ultimate and awesome ebook reading app for iOS designed for blind and visually impaired users.
I have hired a designer and a couple of partly sighted people to develop a high contrast and comfortable UI. I payed them some money for their work.
I spent two years for this project and it even has been released as open beta. I cannot write shocking numbers because only 250 regular users were there according to appstore connect console, but those users loved the application, they used it and were happy.
If they found a bug, they brought me a report and I was trying to fix it as soon as possible.
IDK about english, but in russian we have such a word and i can say that i was burning with this project, i loved it, i spent most part of my free time for it.
But at some point i realized that only one middle grade Swift developer is not enough for this thing.
I wrote a motivating post to all serious programmer communities trying to find more people.
And it failed.
Unfortunately I have lost my job and was in hard search for a new company, and so I couldn't continue this project myself.
Also because of the sanctions against Russia i couldn't continue paying for my apple developer membership and lost any ability to publish apps in the appstore or even testflight.

And now, looking back at this long sad story, i understand that for a big project to stay alive not only programming skills are required but at least a minimal ability to communicate and hire (for money or for an idea) a team of people who could help you.
And with those people you should communicate, inform them about all stuff and delegate tasks between them.
If someone is good at moderation, he should be an admin and communicate with other moderators and admins. If other guy is so good at system administration, let him be a server admin, controlling system stability and responsiveness. If third guy is able to write some code, maybe not as cool and fast as you, then give him some routine tasks which take time but are not so difficult for him.
Start to plan your time, write and control everything with some task tracker or even time tracker.
Use some recommendations and practices to optimize your time and balance your load.
As i said earlier, optimization is the main thing after coding skills.

A person who is always in a hury, who always runs to somewhere and cannot even stop will burn out himself after 5, 10 or 15 years.
If you manage your time and load properly, you should have some time to stop and rest, not only in bed while sleeping.


-- (ArcticMoon):
Pajper has other different projects and that's cool, I'm not denying anything. But to be honest he has much more than he can manage alone. He's always in a rush, ignores even community administrators and moderators, and after that, when sees a community collapsing, he already can't do anything because he manages too many projects all at once that's already not possible and realistic alone.
That's why we are getting a lot of big, clever words, large numbers, so a naive user will be surprised without thinking. But all in all 500 blogs aren't that much, 10000 private messages in text are nothing compared to anything more serious, should I continue? These are just large numbers to let the average user wonder and take back his words. On the other side, a programmer knows this all and laughs.
I had a similar groupmate at university. When I didn't know how to set up windows properly, he kept telling me it's difficult as hell because all the drivers and programs and everything, don't even try because it's difficult as hell. Once I was obligated to set up windows on a laptop so I had to try. I set up a virtual machine, on that system I knew I can't do anything wrong. I went through the setup and I was all set. After that I went up to my roommate, who asked me to set up her computer and I did everything without mistakes, and don't forget it's very very very difficult, if we believe the words of my previous groupmate.
After that I didn't believe anything but if I wanted to try something, I read about it myself and decided if it's easy or difficult for me to try.


--

--

And how exactly are you helping now by starting the flames again after it was left to cool down for a few days?
-- (Julitka):
Well, and that's pajper doing, doesn't he? He even shouldn't care about your community as a dev, what he does, cause he cares about u, users. He doesn't care for PC, cause he doesn't have to, as he has, well, lets call them people to do it, though I really apreciate their work as volunteers. Cyrmax, your project was maintained for two years. TWO YEARS. Elten is being maintained for around 10. What's a guarantee you will even care for it for more than afew months? And how should we rely on your declarations, if you have done nothing for the project so far? Pajper made several appeals for programmers here to help in any way, even in building public API in the language he didn't desire it to be. There were two tries and each dev withdrew after fucking few months.
And, what's make me laugh the most is your runaway from the topic. Pajper proved he has much bigger experience in programming than you have, so you immediately changed it to another. Come on, be serious, please.
-- (cyrmax):
Developing and managing a huge project is not only about programming skills, Linux or windows knowledge or overal competence in computer stuff.
It is also about people, communication and proper delegation of tasks.
As i allready told in my russian blog, I had a project, it was an ultimate and awesome ebook reading app for iOS designed for blind and visually impaired users.
I have hired a designer and a couple of partly sighted people to develop a high contrast and comfortable UI. I payed them some money for their work.
I spent two years for this project and it even has been released as open beta. I cannot write shocking numbers because only 250 regular users were there according to appstore connect console, but those users loved the application, they used it and were happy.
If they found a bug, they brought me a report and I was trying to fix it as soon as possible.
IDK about english, but in russian we have such a word and i can say that i was burning with this project, i loved it, i spent most part of my free time for it.
But at some point i realized that only one middle grade Swift developer is not enough for this thing.
I wrote a motivating post to all serious programmer communities trying to find more people.
And it failed.
Unfortunately I have lost my job and was in hard search for a new company, and so I couldn't continue this project myself.
Also because of the sanctions against Russia i couldn't continue paying for my apple developer membership and lost any ability to publish apps in the appstore or even testflight.

And now, looking back at this long sad story, i understand that for a big project to stay alive not only programming skills are required but at least a minimal ability to communicate and hire (for money or for an idea) a team of people who could help you.
And with those people you should communicate, inform them about all stuff and delegate tasks between them.
If someone is good at moderation, he should be an admin and communicate with other moderators and admins. If other guy is so good at system administration, let him be a server admin, controlling system stability and responsiveness. If third guy is able to write some code, maybe not as cool and fast as you, then give him some routine tasks which take time but are not so difficult for him.
Start to plan your time, write and control everything with some task tracker or even time tracker.
Use some recommendations and practices to optimize your time and balance your load.
As i said earlier, optimization is the main thing after coding skills.

A person who is always in a hury, who always runs to somewhere and cannot even stop will burn out himself after 5, 10 or 15 years.
If you manage your time and load properly, you should have some time to stop and rest, not only in bed while sleeping.


-- (ArcticMoon):
Pajper has other different projects and that's cool, I'm not denying anything. But to be honest he has much more than he can manage alone. He's always in a rush, ignores even community administrators and moderators, and after that, when sees a community collapsing, he already can't do anything because he manages too many projects all at once that's already not possible and realistic alone.
That's why we are getting a lot of big, clever words, large numbers, so a naive user will be surprised without thinking. But all in all 500 blogs aren't that much, 10000 private messages in text are nothing compared to anything more serious, should I continue? These are just large numbers to let the average user wonder and take back his words. On the other side, a programmer knows this all and laughs.
I had a similar groupmate at university. When I didn't know how to set up windows properly, he kept telling me it's difficult as hell because all the drivers and programs and everything, don't even try because it's difficult as hell. Once I was obligated to set up windows on a laptop so I had to try. I set up a virtual machine, on that system I knew I can't do anything wrong. I went through the setup and I was all set. After that I went up to my roommate, who asked me to set up her computer and I did everything without mistakes, and don't forget it's very very very difficult, if we believe the words of my previous groupmate.
After that I didn't believe anything but if I wanted to try something, I read about it myself and decided if it's easy or difficult for me to try.


--

--

--

Oh, I'm really sory. Didn't want to make noise here, didn't see the date. I mean, I saw it to be later than it was. May be I should have stopped myself of saying it, but only because of the calmdown here. Sorry once again, then.
-- (karmien):
And how exactly are you helping now by starting the flames again after it was left to cool down for a few days?
-- (Julitka):
Well, and that's pajper doing, doesn't he? He even shouldn't care about your community as a dev, what he does, cause he cares about u, users. He doesn't care for PC, cause he doesn't have to, as he has, well, lets call them people to do it, though I really apreciate their work as volunteers. Cyrmax, your project was maintained for two years. TWO YEARS. Elten is being maintained for around 10. What's a guarantee you will even care for it for more than afew months? And how should we rely on your declarations, if you have done nothing for the project so far? Pajper made several appeals for programmers here to help in any way, even in building public API in the language he didn't desire it to be. There were two tries and each dev withdrew after fucking few months.
And, what's make me laugh the most is your runaway from the topic. Pajper proved he has much bigger experience in programming than you have, so you immediately changed it to another. Come on, be serious, please.
-- (cyrmax):
Developing and managing a huge project is not only about programming skills, Linux or windows knowledge or overal competence in computer stuff.
It is also about people, communication and proper delegation of tasks.
As i allready told in my russian blog, I had a project, it was an ultimate and awesome ebook reading app for iOS designed for blind and visually impaired users.
I have hired a designer and a couple of partly sighted people to develop a high contrast and comfortable UI. I payed them some money for their work.
I spent two years for this project and it even has been released as open beta. I cannot write shocking numbers because only 250 regular users were there according to appstore connect console, but those users loved the application, they used it and were happy.
If they found a bug, they brought me a report and I was trying to fix it as soon as possible.
IDK about english, but in russian we have such a word and i can say that i was burning with this project, i loved it, i spent most part of my free time for it.
But at some point i realized that only one middle grade Swift developer is not enough for this thing.
I wrote a motivating post to all serious programmer communities trying to find more people.
And it failed.
Unfortunately I have lost my job and was in hard search for a new company, and so I couldn't continue this project myself.
Also because of the sanctions against Russia i couldn't continue paying for my apple developer membership and lost any ability to publish apps in the appstore or even testflight.

And now, looking back at this long sad story, i understand that for a big project to stay alive not only programming skills are required but at least a minimal ability to communicate and hire (for money or for an idea) a team of people who could help you.
And with those people you should communicate, inform them about all stuff and delegate tasks between them.
If someone is good at moderation, he should be an admin and communicate with other moderators and admins. If other guy is so good at system administration, let him be a server admin, controlling system stability and responsiveness. If third guy is able to write some code, maybe not as cool and fast as you, then give him some routine tasks which take time but are not so difficult for him.
Start to plan your time, write and control everything with some task tracker or even time tracker.
Use some recommendations and practices to optimize your time and balance your load.
As i said earlier, optimization is the main thing after coding skills.

A person who is always in a hury, who always runs to somewhere and cannot even stop will burn out himself after 5, 10 or 15 years.
If you manage your time and load properly, you should have some time to stop and rest, not only in bed while sleeping.


-- (ArcticMoon):
Pajper has other different projects and that's cool, I'm not denying anything. But to be honest he has much more than he can manage alone. He's always in a rush, ignores even community administrators and moderators, and after that, when sees a community collapsing, he already can't do anything because he manages too many projects all at once that's already not possible and realistic alone.
That's why we are getting a lot of big, clever words, large numbers, so a naive user will be surprised without thinking. But all in all 500 blogs aren't that much, 10000 private messages in text are nothing compared to anything more serious, should I continue? These are just large numbers to let the average user wonder and take back his words. On the other side, a programmer knows this all and laughs.
I had a similar groupmate at university. When I didn't know how to set up windows properly, he kept telling me it's difficult as hell because all the drivers and programs and everything, don't even try because it's difficult as hell. Once I was obligated to set up windows on a laptop so I had to try. I set up a virtual machine, on that system I knew I can't do anything wrong. I went through the setup and I was all set. After that I went up to my roommate, who asked me to set up her computer and I did everything without mistakes, and don't forget it's very very very difficult, if we believe the words of my previous groupmate.
After that I didn't believe anything but if I wanted to try something, I read about it myself and decided if it's easy or difficult for me to try.


--

--

--

--