Lets Talk About the Issue of Transgenderism

Ok but why does **dna** hold so much weight? It is just one marker of **sex** not gender, in most sex and gendder are the same thing but clearly not in all people. Gender dysphoria is a distress-based diagnosis. The goal of therapy is to reduce suffering, not to match karyotypes to social categories.
If hormone therapy and surgery reliably reduce distress, suicidality, and improve functioning — which they do, repeatedly across studies — then it works.

Not from studies I've read. Ah, truth is indeed in the eye of the beholder. We live in strange times.

@17 That's a great point! Just imagined what the scientists might say about an unusual discovery like that lol.
In fact, something is telling me that the first 20 years and a bit more will be a laughing stock and won't be taken seriously by scientists and historicians alike, due to all the social engineering and misinformation/propaganda that makes up the times we live in today, but especially covid and post-covid times, as it seems like that's when it all started being forced down our throats.
Oh, before I forget, an anecdote for y'all. At a goalball tournament I had attended a few years ago, the best female player award went to a guy who didn't even undergo a surgery and had a much deeper voice than a lot of my friends lol, while there were many amazing female players who could've received that award.
It really, really pissed me off.

@18, I do not accept the distinction between sex and gender, nor do I affirm the notion that a gender transition is even possible. Citing data to try to verify both propositions is a category error.

@21
If you reject the distinction between sex and gender, then we’re not arguing evidence but metaphysics. The entire body of data on dysphoria and transition presupposes that distinction. Denying it means you’ve excluded the very framework in which the discussion makes sense. At that point, it’s not that the evidence fails—it’s that, by your own premises, no evidence could ever count. That's not a debate.

I wonder, just out of curiosity, if a bear ever identifies as a man, will liberals allow him to participate in wrestling. The real human will die, so I suppose it will be allowed.

My point is that illusions are illusions no matter in what terms they're couched.

@23
Comparing human identity to a bear in a wrestling ring isn’t the argument you think it is. Humans have self-concept, language, and consciousness; bears don’t. Gender dysphoria is a medically recognized condition with documented treatment outcomes. Calling that an ‘illusion’ because it doesn’t fit your intuition is like calling glasses an illusion because eyes don’t naturally see 20/20. Reality isn’t negated by your discomfort with it.
If you truly can’t tell the difference between a trans person and a grizzly, the problem is literacy, not illusion.

Eventually, if your argument wins, the insane will rule the asylum.

And what is that supposed to meen?
-- (thespyde):
Eventually, if your argument wins, the insane will rule the asylum.

--

@25.
If you think the position is wrong, explain how. Calling people insane just exposes the fact you ran out of logic.

There is no arguing with people who have their minds made up like some people here obviously do. You have soft ideas, I have facts. What has become of this sophistry you've been putting forth. We now have men going into women's restrooms and finding out that thing works after all between their legs, even though they wish they had vaginas. So, they rape women and keep on wishing, oh wait, they enjoy raping so that's out.

I have plenty of logic, you, sir, just don't want to listen.

@28
You’ve traded reasoning for hysteria and called it virtue. The claim that trans people are predators is recycled propaganda. Your sentences bleed fear, not evidence. You don’t protect anyone by dehumanizing strangers, you just prove how cheaply cruelty can dress itself up as logic.
I had hoped for debate and understanding, instead, all i got was thinnly vailed hatespeach.

I don't hate those people. I feel sorry for them.

@30
I was under the impression that calling a group of people predators was considered a form of hate, I suppose I was wrong.

I've never called them predators, it just encourages people to hide behind such a label to get into womens' bathrooms. See, you're putting words in my mouth and you've gotten way more upset than I have.

This is getting pointless.

Umm, I'm not the admin, but what the heck? I'm pritty sure this is suposed to be a constructive debate, rather than a fight.

Debates like this pretty much always degenerate into pointlessness.

Neither of us has changed his mind or point of view.

@29, no, that's not what he said. He said that under this logic any old predator could identify as Transgender and invade female spaces and carry out those wicked acts, not that transgender people are necessarily rapists.
The simple fact is allowing this ideology leads to many absurdities.

Thespide thanks for putting my thoughts in words. Couldn't agree more.

@32, 34.
On the contrary, the discussion was quite productive. We were talking of philosophy, distinctions, and statistics. This, of course, was halted by your use of inflammatory language that seeks to smear particular groups. And when called out on it, you fall back to debate is pointless and no one will change their minds.