If you agree and don't wanna say anything more, just press ctrl+K on the post.

What was that for. I agreed but also argumented why I said things I said. Wow guys sensitivity is a problem.

Well, not to attack you personaly but I have never heard about ruby bevore using elten and I don't believe there are that many people who do understand the code or even the hundreds of bugs. Also, I can't know how much resources the elten server takes or how much servers are in your country but there are over 40 sponsors and other subscribers, so yea, I don't know why we even talk about money in that context because the development should be also for fun.
Yea and lets be real, arctic is on that point right that we have so many half startet things, and the project, including code and other stuff is, well to say it mayby harsh, a mess. I wouldn't have a good overview if I would be you, but well, thats me, so. Just saying that I as well don't get where this forum should end or what exactly the plans are now, because yall know? saying fuck elten, uh uh uh elten is so shitty laggy and bad, and then writing here I agree to be friendly to pajper. Well: rudolf: elten, fuck yourselv in the assh,
And well, my opinion, I can relate to you, because there are times where its laggy, and slow, and just fucking up with its million random errors, but I stand to it, yes, because this are, just facts!
-- (pajper):
Elten is an open-source program, developed in one man's free time and by one man. And I admit that I have had enough of this tone of approach towards me.
I am extremely sorry for all the delays, but I will not accept being brushed aside like this. At this point in time with Elten itself, I had fixes to make (if only related to the recording of audio posts), a tidy up on the English community that is ongoing, server optimisations, among other things regarding what's new. Even now there are known bugs that I'm working on at the same time, led by notifications of new comments. And all this for a project from which I haven't seen a penny.
So that's the tone in which we won't talk.

But if you are happy to develop, you're welcome. :)
https://github.com/dawidpieper/elten2

--

And yea, I do see your point, and how much you are doing here, thats no question, but well, what should I say. The user experience is just like this at the moment. And I think that we really need some kind of developmend team, more, official administration, people you can speak to, like representative people for a language. because well, here we see how its ending up if just an random administrator trows together some people to moderate a whole language community. and those people should be finaly be fair selectet, I have the feeling this all isn't really taken seriously by some people. they are just changing their opinions on wich side it seems to be better, and nicer. And well, learn to see the difference between constructivity and just hate speach, because you all are overreacting way to fast.

There is a certain irony in the fact that I have worked on dozens of programming projects and have only encountered criticism of my language choice from blind people. Learning a programming language for a programmer really isn't difficult, mastering the syntax and commands of a new language is a matter of a few tens of minutes, maybe a few hours.
By the way, Ruby is not that little known at all, it is in almost every top ten of the most popular programming languages.

As for the personal issues, I would like to point out here that I never wanted to do what I am doing now. It was the subsequent conflicts in the English community that forced me into action. I agree that we are behind schedule and I am sorry for that, but first and foremost this is not the job I ever planned.

As for free time, I think we have a bit of a misunderstanding here. Because if the entitlement of some allows them to dictate how others should organise volunteer work, then I don't understand anything.
With me, my private life will always come first, my own work, only then volunteering. And don't get me wrong, I devote a lot of time to Elten, in total there will already be thousands of hours of it, but I don't see any basis for accounting for this work.

And, still on the question of resources, well, a project like Elten really does consume a huge number of them. We have forums, voice content, conferences, transcriptions of posts, blogs, often with over 100 users active at any one time. It's a really big community, in terms of resources consuming more than most forums.

Okay, okay. not wanting to start the next argue here, I believe your words but just for my understand, if ruby is so known/popular, why, don't we have any help by people? I mean if I would know the language I would love to help, but I don't, so...

Well, first of all, there are not that many blind programmers at all. I don't want to start an argument here, but it's one thing to write a simple app or audio game and another to be a programmer.

there, are much blind programmers. I probably could call you 100 names wich can speak python or at least bgt or even other things like c and c++, ETC.
colton hill, tunmi, silak, muhamed sulayman, sam tupy, jonathan, I can speak little litle basic, some german people, and s on...
but that is aktually mostly python and bgt. I know really no guy who can code rubi or heard of them besides pajper. but idk if you say you could learn a new programming language in like a feew hours then why you don't code elten in python or something? I mean, then you have to stop the work from all things in the rubi elten, all things in the forums, and the IOS beta testing stuff, but then you could make it if you put all your free time in it. I mean, why programming elten with a language wich seems to have 103958 bugs instead to changing to simple python3 where a lot of people can help you? just saying. I know how hard it is to re code a whole huge program in another language. but continuing elten like that, it makes, in my opinion, no sence.

In the community I usually am nowadays, I could count at least 10 blind programmers anyway.

I'm not very active in the English-speaking community, so I may be wrong, but from my observations, there are not many programmers. The ability to write a game in BGT or script in Python is not programming. A project as large as NVDA currently has exactly 100 contributors, and many of them are sighted.
I'm not saying there are no blind programmers, I know a few myself. I'm just saying that this number is small.

Now add to that having free time, motivation to support some (not well-known in english community) Elten...
Collaborating on an existing project is never easy, it takes some time to familiarize yourself with its structure, conventions, understand the architecture and so on.

I also regret that the response from the developers community is so small, but I'm not surprised.

Let's be honest, Elten is a very good Program for its stage, but there's always room for improvements.

I honestly believe that many users are on the wrong path. that things are delayed? yes of course. It would be unfair to deny the obvious. But is it so difficult to question politely?

My opinion here is the following: things are not as many of us would like, there are errors to be solved, some big ones. other small ones.
But in my opinion, I repeat. In my opinion, this problem is something that must be solved together with a team. one person couldn't, and as I said when I first wrote here, it would be nice to have administrators. If I'm not mistaken, this may have been raised in some posts prior to this one that I will make, and I believe that as long as we continue without a more robust administration team, the problem will have to be solved slowly, and we users will have to be more patient than ever.

Absolutely agreed. I've never understood those people, who are against monetical support but want everything. I'm referring to for example Marc's post, in which he straight out says he will never ever support this program and it's developer, but wants everything out of the box without giving anything. If there was a big company behind Elten, maybe I would understand this mentality though, not by much but more than now. But this is a single man, trying to do everything we want from him. Maybe you don't really know because most of you don't read the polish community and don't know Dawid that much, but they have a foundation over there, which also must work somehow. A quick note, I'm still having and using the thing that helps you to sign your name, from you guys at Prowadnica :)
With this, I am not saying that he shouldn't work at all and shouldn't listen to feedback. What I'm saying is the fact that he listens, but silently. He's also studying as far as I remember, in fact, this is the reason I've told in an earlier post that I have a feeling he took up too many projects all at once.

I'll bet a hand that I don't have half the knowledge that he has. worked up projects for so many years, I understand the
hard effort he makes. but few at the end of the day will understand it.
Regarding monetary aid. I don't know what reasons @marchoffmann will have for not collaborating, but I think that the more they could lend a hand there, the better the project would work given that existing services could be improved, and in the process we would show the developer that their work is worth a lot.
For my part I would like to help. But the situation in Argentina and particularly mine does not allow it. but I hope that more people collaborate with the project, and that we have more elten for many years.

No, because I can't speak polish, I sometimes have the feeling that this community is way more interesting than the others, I mean I've been checking around there with translate and found informations I've never heard bevore about elten, why don't the english people get the same infos. well whatever, I agree to rudolf in that point that I don't see a really good future in continuing elten like this, but well, otherside, you have no other options I think. so yea, I can also relate to theblack here. And well, that I am a sponsor shows that I am for sure willing to support the programm, and I also get something for it, but, to say it over all, there are maaany things to improve, fix, etc.

-- (ArcticMoon):
Absolutely agreed. I've never understood those people, who are against monetical support but want everything. I'm referring to for example Marc's post, in which he straight out says he will never ever support this program and it's developer, but wants everything out of the box without giving anything. If there was a big company behind Elten, maybe I would understand this mentality though, not by much but more than now. But this is a single man, trying to do everything we want from him. Maybe you don't really know because most of you don't read the polish community and don't know Dawid that much, but they have a foundation over there, which also must work somehow. A quick note, I'm still having and using the thing that helps you to sign your name, from you guys at Prowadnica :)
With this, I am not saying that he shouldn't work at all and shouldn't listen to feedback. What I'm saying is the fact that he listens, but silently. He's also studying as far as I remember, in fact, this is the reason I've told in an earlier post that I have a feeling he took up too many projects all at once.

--

And well, I am still unsure if I pay again, because my pakage expands on christmas. Its not bad, but just the direction in wich elten is going, my feeling and fun with the programm just decreased last year. And thats not just because a developer or because I have to pay, its because lots of bugs, the not working administrations in two language communitys, noone fucking cares about wich is really frustrating me, the fact you have nothing against spammers, many users are treathed unfair and noone really understands it, gets the context or a view whats really going on here. And I still think we nead a relliable team, wich is able to help, and make this programm stable and better.
And yea, I have nothing against the fact people studdy, people have a life, but they have to know for theirselfes whats good for them, how much they can do/bring, and if they can't even answer on a report about 5, 6, spamm accounts, wich is, not allowed in eltens rules, wich are, btw also not really cared by anyone. #under 13, then I would ask myself whats going wrong here.

the fact that he gives a shit for this long is something that I can respect but I understand the other points to a extent

First off. I'm simply not able to donate here myself, I don't have the ways yet. Second, why should I pay if this is buggy since years. If it's actually being truely fixed, changes are more obvious and things just arn't done randomly and not a single one other than the big main developer has a clue about, sorry, no. So don't put words in my mouth that way, moon.
3rd, to be honest if I have a busy life I wouldn't even try to build an eltenger app, I wouldn't have 500 things running at the same time, and just start doing comunity changes but leaving them half finished within months and keeping it to this a bit chaotic design. I also agree that python is more than usable and likely the simplest programming language that is worth using, so I don't consider it not a programming lang at all. And nvda is a massive thing the most of blind people with a windows pc use nowadays, you can't compare that to little elten with even 100 people online, nvda is much more. It's natural to have sighted folks there too. And a lot of people are getting into programming, especially python as we see nowadays. But I am just repeating myself and noone is getting my point here other than 2 people the most, so I'm done discussing for now. Yet, my points stand. So if there is a good argument against them which isn't just repeating old statements I've already givven my opinion on, then I'm definitly willing to discuss this further.
Keep in mind I only was very critical to the fact that pajper keeps saying in amount of time a this and this will happen and then after amount of time b passed time a isn't even done. And this is nothing new at all. Honestly I'm very surprised he is that active in this thread, which can actually be a good step towards something better.

The point about NVDA was not a comparison, on the contrary it was a demonstration of scale.
NVDA is probably the largest open-source project related to blind people and has gathered 100 contributors, a significant proportion of whom are sighted. In addition, out of these 100 people, 17 have made only one change at the moment.
Well, I assume that most programmers contributed to NVDA to some extent, this applies to me and most blind programmers I know. So this is a certain estimate of the number of blind programmers, there are probably about a hundred of them - out of these 100, probably 40 are sighted, but I assume that a similar number did not contribute to NVDA for various reasons.
If a project as large as NVDA has gathered around 60 blind developers, what chance does Elten have here?